Pionus Parrot's Forum

The Wonderful World of the Pionus Parrot Species => Pionus Parrot Chatter => Topic started by: Dartman on June 02, 2014, 09:58:22 PM

Title: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 02, 2014, 09:58:22 PM
I was sitting in my recliner watching TV with Lurch on the arm hanging out. Was getting late and had my good glasses on and decided to get the micro fiber cloth out and clean em up. Lurch started looking anxious and flaring, then screeched and attacked my arm. He was going at it for all he was worth so I yelled and shoved him off the arm while he screamed, pirate sweared, and complained. I held up the cloth and he struck at it. A minute later we were both calmed down and I was telling him to be a good bird.
He then went back to the arm and was scratch me daddy like nothing ever happened so I did so the night would end on a good note. It was loud enough it woke my sister up in time to see him screaming and latched onto my arm.
I think maybe he thought the cloth was attacking me or dangerous and went to bite so daddy runs away, or maybe it was getting more attention then he was. Also it was close to bed time and he hates anyone making him go in so he might have been tired and pissy.
Either way he's fine today and not holding a grudge or upset, just wants scratches and treats like normal.
I wish these guys came with a owners manual or a easier away to see what they're really thinking. So many rules even when you've been around them for years. At least he didn't put any holes in my arm and I don't think he was holding back. :shocking:
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: maxsmom on June 03, 2014, 08:07:47 AM
Sorry about attack. My face got.bit hard on.Friday by Max. Afterwards he repeatedly told me he was good and that he.loved me. I didn't take bait and took.a break as I tended to my wound. I know what you mean about owners' manual. I am.going to square one with training and hoping my face does not scar. Hope you are ok
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Julie T on June 03, 2014, 12:13:42 PM
Oh my goodness! :shocking:

I'm so sorry to hear that happened maxsmom, as I'm hoping for your sake that it heals asap and doesn't scar either. Here is a link with some helpful tips to help prevent scarring.  :)
http://www.livestrong.com/article/144530-remedies-to-prevent-scarring/

Terry, glad to hear your arm is okay too! :)
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: maxsmom on June 03, 2014, 12:28:02 PM
Thanks so much for link. I will never treat my.pionus like I did my cockatiels again. They are not domesticated pets. They will not get near my head.  I accept responsibility and definitely will embrace parrot behavior training in earnst
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 03, 2014, 03:03:14 PM
Thanks and glad your face sounds like it will be OK. I was lucky and my arm skin is still pretty flexible, thick, and loose so it just kinda gave way and moved around as he grabbed and ground at it, plus he didn't get the point in.
When he first got here and had started coming out to the top of his cage he dropped a treat and I bent down to pick it up. He didn't like my face so close to his house and nailed me in the lip :taz:
So I know all about face bites and yes it was my fault but we did have a very bad talk and he was a bit slower to just bite after that.
I think sometimes it brings up a scary image for them so they just lash out. I know when he first got here he had given up on warnings and just went right to hard bite mode.
He also MOST times now gives plenty of warning and doesn't bite as hard as he can, but I don't think he was that night.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Julie T on June 03, 2014, 09:55:49 PM
Thanks so much for link. I will never treat my.pionus like I did my cockatiels again. They are not domesticated pets. They will not get near my head.  I accept responsibility and definitely will embrace parrot behavior training in earnst

I don't personally feel comfortable with a parrot on my shoulder. I've heard stories like that before. It seems like the majority of people do it, but it's taking a risk. I was actually debating about letting Raven do it, my husband does regardless of what I tell him. I've decided not to. I'd rather be able to see the body language first if I'm going to kiss my birds or put put them near my face. We'll see how bad Raven is after maturity, but I will definitely be aware of his body language and especially near my face. This is a big reminder to all of us! Hope you heal fast.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: E on June 04, 2014, 01:19:12 AM
So sorry to both of you! It is never fun when our birds attack us.
And a manual is needed if you have a male Pi.
Lots of hugs and love from me and Eloy to both of you! ♥♥♥
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: maxsmom on June 04, 2014, 01:31:47 AM
I was doing sit ups on floor and Max was sitting on me. I was in a very vulnerable position. Never again. Hoping I.do not have permanent reminder..such a visible wound location....very humbling

Thanks for well wishes
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: momazon on June 04, 2014, 06:53:28 PM
Just read this, so sorry to hear about the bites!!!  Our rehomed senegal bites and hangs on, and attacks all other animals if she gets out. 

Dobby has nipped a couple of times when I did not read his body language correctly and put my face close to the perch, but always a warning nip.  It was scary.

Terry and Maxsmom, you have  great attitudes towards your birds. 
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 04, 2014, 09:41:59 PM
Thanks, He's a work in progress and I'm sure he thinks the same of me but the times when he's preening on or by me with happy eyes makes it all worth it and he keeps getting more loving and forgiving, BUT he still has his moments.
I could tell he was getting wound up that night but lately most times he just pinches or pecks quickly and he's done.
I didn't get outa the way quick enough and he was really upset and let me have it very quickly.
Hope MaxsMom is OK and Max is back to being good as sounds like she got it worse then me and she's taking the long term too.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: maxsmom on June 05, 2014, 12:02:15 AM
I simply can't let Max cajole me to letting him near my head. Our relationship HAS to change in that respect. I got him as a baby and our bonding occurred with him on my shoulder. He loves to hang out on me. I have been warned with bites  before but this is the worst bite so parrot training 101 has my full attention
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: E on June 06, 2014, 11:12:39 AM
@Maxsmom.
How is it? Both physical and with your face?
I have been thing about you alot, and I feel so sorry for you. I hope you heal in both way fast. ♥♥♥
The first time Eloy attack me I was so shocked (and sad too) that he could do that, but later I understand not to take it personal.

Again, many, many hugs!
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 06, 2014, 05:48:20 PM
Guess I have to read more of that Pionus book like Jan's selling but I know they do misplaced bites, and the bite to get you away from their perceived danger so I think both of us were victims of some version of that, plus some things just get them into battle mode.
The first night when it seemed Lurch and I were doing great, then he just turned and bit as hard and fast as he could really shocked and made me sad too. I was thinking we were going to be friends right away and it didn't turn out that way :(
Hurt my feelings too but it was his first night and I now know he was scared to death so lucky he allowed what he did.
Nerd used to look at my eyes then gently preen the lashes but I'd never try that with Lurch, I like my eyes. Plus after all those years we had trust and respect for each other.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: E on June 07, 2014, 11:48:32 AM
Nerd used to look at my eyes then gently preen the lashes
Awww! That is so cute to read, ♥♥♥ I understand that you miss him a lot.
Eloy is sometimes that cute too and wants to preen my eyebrows. But often he just do it to tell me that I should be preening him.  :haha:
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 07, 2014, 12:04:32 PM
Yeah Nerd was my best buddy and I miss him but Lurch and I are working things out nicely, we just still have those rough patches to work through :shocking:
Lucky that Eloy can be trusted to preen your eyebrows without a pop in the eye but you did get him young so he's gotten to know and trust you without all the used parrot baggage most of us are dealing with now :icon_mrgreen:
Lurch will just sidle up to my hand or arm, put his head down, maybe grab a finger or nibble my arm to get me with it, plus he'll shove his beak under my hand and push as hard as he can to get me with the scritches :biglaughing:
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: maxsmom on June 08, 2014, 01:46:27 AM
@Maxsmom.
How is it? Both physical and with your face?
I have been thing about you alot, and I feel so sorry for you. I hope you heal in both way fast. ♥♥♥
The first time Eloy attack me I was so shocked (and sad too) that he could do becauseut later I understand not to take it personal.

Again, many, many hugs!

The wound has closed up. Time will tell if this is a permanent scar. It is very very visible on my face so it is a constant reminder. Mentally this has affected me in that I have not started training Max anew yet. I am kind to him but I will not let him get above my waist. He is constantly trying. I am sad because the nature of our relationship seems changed. But perhaps when I start training him again we can bond in another way. Charlie pursues Max for companionship while Max is trying to cajole me.......we are quite the threesome..


Thanks for asking


The eyebrow preening sounds lovely.....something I enjoyed with my cockatiels
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 08, 2014, 09:19:52 AM
That's too bad that Max has got you upset and now you can't trust him on your shoulder :( Hope the bite heals up well with no scars. I had a radiator cap blow on on me a while ago and I got cold water on my arm, hand, and chest where the scalding water hit me. I normally make those big ugly keltoid scars and I have nothing on my chest at all as I kept it clean and protected and it had blisters and everything.
I do some small spots on my wrist and left hand you can hardly see, but I'm a guy with lots of scars on those areas so it just blends in.
Ralph, a BeeBee parrot I had for a while when younger bit me hard on the nose when I was too close and that healed perfectly and Lurches lip bite is history though I don't think it was as deep as yours sounds.
Lurch yesterday was upset I didn't let him out or uncover him right away when he heard me wake up so he was pissy all day off and on.
He'd fluff up and start heading for my arm and I'd hold something up he could bite till he calmed down, then he'd hang out happily, get upset again, and nip at my finger I was scratching him with.
Finally about 9:30 pm he went in after trying to land on my shoulder with bad intent as he was upset again so sister ran up and shut his door and told him he and daddy needed a break from each other.
I had walked away telling him fine, you don't want to be nice I'm leaving and you can be pissy by yourself. :shocking:
This morning I got up sorta early and ran right out and uncovered him, greeted him, and opened his door so hopefully he'll get over being shut up and ignored longer then he liked.
He's been flying to me when I walk away and landing on my arm or shoulder lately and being perfectly nice, happy, and a gentleman, so we'll see how he is today and I wont let him up there either till I know he's back in a good mood. It sure hurts when you have a critter that seems to be your best friend and they do things like this. We get upset, they can feel the emotion, then they get more upset too and it feeds on itself till things change and we both feel like friends and trusting each other again.  :hugs:
Hang in there and be careful, Max may not even know why he did what he did and now he knows your upset so he's on guard and you two will just have to work through it and get back to your happy place.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Julie T on June 08, 2014, 09:44:11 AM
Maxsmom, I feel the emotion of your post. I can just imagine. I think it's quite normal to feel the way you do about the trust, new rules, hurt feelings, seeing your relationship in a different light - seeing Max at this moment for what he is... A sexually mature male animal. It hurts so badly though when they are also our babies, and the love of our life. I could also imagine the upset and concern over the healing wound in a place where you'd definitely not want a scar  :(. I hope all goes well in that regard.

You will get the courage again to rebuild your relationship with Max in a healthy way. Don't worry, :) you'll get there again. This really opens my eyes to Raven. He's 9 months now, and I do wonder what he'll be like as a mature adult. I ponder whether he'll always have more 'patience' for my husband (who I can now see is his favorite :()! Take care.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: momazon on June 08, 2014, 02:05:37 PM
This thread made me think of all the bites from all the birds over the years, and I realized I have had some pretty painful ones, but have no scars in visible places.  Just behind one ear. The face is different.

It may help to point to the bite and say "owie, poor, poor Mommy" or whatever you say to him to let him know this was a big deal.  I did that to Dobby and he gentled down.Also with  one of the rehomes we had years ago  who would attack my ear when I stood at the stove. Once she got it and hung on, with me screaming and shaking my head.  Lots of blood and drama, and she never bit again. I did nothing except try to shake her off, so it wasn't a matter of her getting hurt.  I think it was a game and after the big bite, she knew it was not.  I did not hold her for a week, and maybe a month went by before I let her back on my shoulder.  When I did, she was much better and oddly, way more well behaved.

I do not claim to know how intelligent they are, or whether or not they can always be safe, but I do know they put things together and understand way more than we realize.

You have my best wishes for rebuilding your trust in your little guy.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 08, 2014, 04:36:01 PM
I think sometimes if they get punishment, a scolding, timeout, something RIGHT after they do whatever bad thing theydo remember and try not to repeat whatever they did that had a bad result. Nerd bit my toe one time very badly so I grabbed his beak and held on while telling him that was bad. He always had a issue with feet, his feet, my feet, he hated his being touched and hated my bare toes and feet with a passion. After that he still hated feet but he never just attacked my toes without plenty of noise and warning first. I don't think he knew they were part of Daddy till that happened.
Sometimes they just do what a wild Pionus does so they aren't upset but you still get bit and then anything you do to let them know it was bad doesn't compute with them so it just confuses them and gets them upset.
Lurch has nipped my fingers before but he's not fluffed up mad, or eyes pinning, so he was probably giving a danger warning or trying to play and didn't realize how hard he was biting.
When he does that he gets a pass as he's just being a maxi and he usually doesn't bite hard.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 28, 2014, 11:53:36 AM
Well found out Lurch has a real issue with some of my favorite hats he doesn't usually see me in too :shocking: He went right after me when I got out one of my favorite work around and do things hats, launched right at me, screeched as he landed and bit my neck hard. He then flew right to the curtain we use to hide the washer dryer set and realized he was in big trouble so headed right for his cage. I told him that wasn't nice and strode over with purpose and chased him inside with a pillow while he complained and attacked it. Then I told him to think about what he'd done and covered him with his blanket for 10 minutes or so. I came back in and uncovered him and he was still upset and striking at me so I left him inside after uncovering him. He eventually started making cute noises and begging nicely to be let out but I left him in for a couple of hours and finally let him out and he was nice after that.
Geeze, one time he's fine with a hat or new thing, next time it's homicidal rage and attack mode :omg:

And Maxsmom how are you doing lately, and is Charlie trying to be nice again and things getting back to normal? Lurch still pops us in the neck or back of the head from time to time but he's starting to learn to just peck, or use the curve of his beak rather then a bite as biting doesn't get him what he wants and he gets to leave.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: maxsmom on June 28, 2014, 12:18:01 PM
I am still healing physically and emotionally.  Max craves to be on my shoulder and to follow me around so he is persistently pursuing me. It is tough when he looks at me and says Mommy, I love you.  Still gathering myself to develop some more positive training with him...probably will go back to target training


I was doing sit ups a week or 2 ago. Max came out of his cage and was running across floor to me saying Mommy.I love you. I quickly stood up. Max was bewildered and looked lost and slowly walked back.to cage. Charge then came out of his cage charging at me.....seemingly upset that I upset his buddy Max.So now I lock them in cages when I do sit ups
.....I was bit on face doing situps so this is very sensitive thing for me
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 28, 2014, 12:24:57 PM
Yeah, that sucks but sounds like he thought he was protecting his friend from his other friend  :(  I'd keep them locked up too as face bites are bad news and no need to take a chance with a known trigger. Lurch certainly charges like a little bull when he's in battle mode and we try to stay outa his way and get him into something else before it gets ugly but sometimes he just goes off before we can dodge, and it certainly does hurt your feelings, plus your body, and puts a damper on the relationships we've built up with him.
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: E on June 28, 2014, 02:39:46 PM
.....I was bit on face doing situps so this is very sensitive thing for me
I understand that! I would have react the same so don't feel bad for it.
I hope you soon will be fine physically, and how is it with your face?
A lot of hugs from me to you! ♥♥♥
Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: E on June 28, 2014, 03:06:47 PM
He then flew right to the curtain we use to hide the washer dryer set and realized he was in big trouble so headed right for his cage. I told him that wasn't nice and strode over with purpose and chased him inside with a pillow while he complained and attacked it.
Have you tried to do nothing?

When Eloy is angry and upset about something I have two choice.
1. To get angry back and try to handle him, and that is to challenge him, (I have done it once so I know) a battle I know I will loose in the end. (And I loose that time because he was angry for some days after that in the same situation)
2. To do nothing and just ignore him. :-) I often just leave the room he is in, and close the door. I never try to put him in his cage because that means I need to handle him when he is aggressive and I think that is wrong.
I often watch him and as soon he is doing something not aggressive, to play or something like that I open the door and tell him that he is a good boy and if he wants he can step up on my arm to re enforce that we are friends again.
This is working really fine, and I never need to be angry at him, and I believe that it will only make it worse if you get angry back.

Eloy can go from battle mode to cuddle mode in only minutes, I believe that he feels that he can be angry if he wants, but he don't have any to fight with when he is, so it is better to be nice as soon as possible.  :icon_mrgreen:



Title: Re: found another Lurch trigger last night
Post by: Dartman on June 28, 2014, 03:48:33 PM
OH I wasn't about to handle him, he went back to his cage on his own so I shooed him inside with the pillow, never really touched him at all.
I had no clue what he was upset about at that point, just knew something set him off and up to that point I was talking nice to him and in a good mood.
Many times we just leave him alone when he's really upset about something and yes, usually very shortly after he's back to normal but some times he stays upset. I do realize when I get upset he gets more upset too but sometimes the emotions or severity of the situation take over.
He's been pretty good lately, that was about a week after the arm biting and at first no clue it was the hat that set him off.
And yes I usually try to say are you in a good mood now or something  and if he is he'll act all happy and normal again, if not I get the fluff of doom and leave him alone till he forgets about it. He has held a grudge before too, I think they have long memories for perceived wrongs to them. Nerd turned his back on us for a few days after we came back from a week of vacation and Lurch has stayed touchy a few days after a battle and I wont touch him when like that either as I have the scars from him AND Nerd to prove it's not a good idea unless you don't care about severe bites.
As far as the first trigger I scritched him and offered a treat after he came back like nothing ever happened to put things back in a good mode to go to bed on so he'd be happy again.