Pionus Parrot's Forum

The Wonderful World of the Pionus Parrot Species => Bronze-Winged => Topic started by: Julie T on July 11, 2014, 07:37:29 PM

Title: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on July 11, 2014, 07:37:29 PM
...the WORST personality (aggression) wise after maturity!  :shocking:

This info is coming from one of only 10 exclusive avian vets in the entire US. He has invented procedures, and been on the forefront of avian medicine for years now. SO, what I'm saying is that he's seen and worked with A LOT of birds.

Raven does have a strong personality and aggressive tendency (though he's come a long way with training) but I can see it in his basic personality. I read a lady's blog (?) or website about a BW she had (this was some years ago) and he became so nasty after maturity and for so long, (and it really sounded like a nightmare) that she finally rehomed him. I was thinking 'well maybe she didn't teach him enough structure and ground rules before maturity, but maybe that has nothing to do with it (?). 

There must be SOME sort of foundation to this avian vet's opinion. After all, he also pointed at Robin and said "those guys too" meaning Red Bellied Parrot males. HE'S RIGHT! Now THAT I have read and heard from other RB male owners many times over the years, as well as knowing Robin over the 20 years I've had him. Red Bellied males have a reputation because for the most part, speaking about general species characteristics, it's true! I have permanent scars to prove it. So now, knowing how Raven is ALREADY at under 11 months old, I'm a bit concerned. Did I end up with 2 beloved boys who are a species known to be half angry pit bull?

*Nancy are you out there??! I want to know how Chante is? He's gone through hormones already right?


Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Nakia on July 11, 2014, 11:10:45 PM
Goodness!! Well all I can say to your impending lament Julie T is thankfully Raven wasn't born with a macaw sized beak!  :shocking:

None of my birds are anywhere near maturity yet. But from what I read time and again most of our sweet babies are destined to drive us nuts and try our patience til they finally get on into their teens and begin to pass the breeding years.  :faint: 
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on July 11, 2014, 11:24:56 PM
Thanks De'Andrea! Yes, I'm thankful that with his attitude he isn't any larger than he is! I've heard some Pi's act hormonal long before they're mature though.

I've never heard or read that before about Bronze Winged in particular, so it surprised me when he said that. I've always read that White Caps are typically the most feisty. I have heard males of any kind of Pi are typically harder to handle than females (just like Amazons) and it does seem that way.
I love my boy... He keeps saying "Raven good boy!" today.  :)

Raven has also officially nicknamed HIMSELF... I've heard several times now, he will refer to himself as Ray, or Ray Ray.  :biglaughing: it's hilarious since we NEVER have called him that! Raven made it up himself!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Nakia on July 11, 2014, 11:50:13 PM
Too too funny, Ray Ray!!  :haha: They do come up with things on their own that leave you  :shocking:  Mine have surprised me with a "WT~~moment" a few times. 

Never a dull moment when living with parrots!  :icon_mrgreen: I've yet to figure out what Roscoe is really trying to say when what I hear coming out of him is, "Mo Betta'" and we don't ever use that phrase.  :shades: And this from a bird who talks plainer than me when he wants too! Not so much of a Texas drawl from him. Leyla Belle my ekkie has a decidedly southern accent. I'll elaborate more on her my Diva when I get a thread started for her.
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on July 12, 2014, 12:19:39 AM
I'd love to hear about all your birds!  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: maxsmom on July 12, 2014, 05:24:02 AM
Ray Ray .......that is hilarious.

Never heard that about BW in particular but I looked into 2 different BW who were older and in rescue......sounded like they were tough cookies

Try to do as much training as you can. I still need to improve

 
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Dartman on July 12, 2014, 11:25:05 AM
Trust me, they all can get pissy and homicidal at times and sometimes it's a trigger thing you have no clue about. Lurch will just seem to be grumpy, pissy, and aggressive at times.
Found out he now has several hats that just make him homicidal, like fly to your neck and bite it with a scream homicidal, soon as you loose the evil hat, good bird again :shocking:
Lurch says Rupear, and maybe Bobbi or Robbie a lot but doesn't respond to them like they were his name, maybe a pet he knew or some foreign language his owner before me used.
Nerd was a lot more shy and forgiving and of course I'm convinced he was male but he was never tested and Lurch is supposed to be a DNA'd male.
Lurch also has his I love you days, and will plop on my shoulder when out any time I try to walk outa the room. Luckily lately, except for the evil hats, he hasn't lashed out and popped my neck like he does when something doesn't go like he wants and I think he's learning that direct bites and pinches get him put down so he's trying to control himself and just makes happy noises and preens while up there most of the time now, plus I keep rubbing his head and keep him busy so he doesn't decide I need a correction. 
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on July 12, 2014, 02:18:09 PM
I'm so thankful I have this Pionus forum for help and moral support coming up. Raven has been much more friendly and compliant finally because of the move and where his cage is he probably likes better? Consistent training has taken us to a pretty good point, though he's still a brat when he wants to be, but I know tough times are coming up as he approaches "that age". I know you can't train hormonal instinct or basic personality out of them!

Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: momazon on July 12, 2014, 02:40:20 PM
Well, I have not jumped in because I was raised in the time of gender differences being downplayed, but I knew early on that testosterone is some very weird stuff. Most canines we have had were very gentle, male or female, but the birds have been evenly split, and the males are no rowdier than the females.  The bird that bit the back of my ear and hung on was a female BW, and after one screaming, bloody attack, she was my sweet baby.  I think  she realized it had gone from a game I did not like to real damage, and she never even nipped again. 

My zon is most likely a male, and "she" is a velcro baby, seems to understand the majority of what I say, and even tells on Dob for stealing ink pens to chew.  She yells, "Mom, Mom, Dob, Dob, Dob" and I know he is being bad. She is the sweetest bird ever, my only complaint is she wants to go everywhere with me all the time.

The rehomed female senegal is the all time worst attacker ever, and we have to be very careful transferring her to her outside cage every day. Again, it seems to be a jolly game for her.

Dobby is a handraised male Maxi, and he has never given more than a little nip.  He does like to ambush my head if I have a hat on, or a certain robe, or really anything new with my hair, but it is funny.  I just toss a dishtowel over him and pick him up by the back.  When I carry him to his cage he is always cackling and calling me "good girl".  He is the most baby like of all our birds, and he is now four.

You may have a feisty male, but he will only be a monster if you ignore him. I guess I would say to spend tons of time with him and talk constantly.  You probably do this already.  I try to take the zon out as much as possible.  Dob is not opposed to travel but loves his big outdoor cage and chewing celery and mint as much as he can.

It does make me wonder why breeders would keep putting male BW's out there if they are not good pets.  The breeders I have heard about seem to be responsible...
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: E on July 13, 2014, 11:29:55 AM
No I don't think so Julie. They are all individual. :-)

Great post Momazon and Terry! ♥
Sometimes Eloy needs to "correct" me too and I only hope he's not on my shoulder when he does that because he always go for my ears.
And small beak still hurts like he** when you have sensitive ears! *Crying*
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Cetan on July 20, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
Sorry I havent been on much, family stuff - but Chante has actually calmed down a bit. He will preen my hair and take Nutriberries from my hand and i have read that his older brother Benjamin is becoming down right affectionate :wink1:  So dont give up, there is still hope
I dibt remember if Dani's Bronson is male or female - anyone remember?
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on July 20, 2014, 05:05:45 PM
Dani's Bronson is female. Well that's good to know that Raven's male blood relatives aren't on the extreme hormonal end!

So how old are Chante and Benjamin now? So they went through puberty and are now calming down? How long were they in the "hormonal" stage (Chante, and if you know about Benjamin).
 
Do you think (generally overall) that Chante has more of an easy going personality, or is he more of a strong willed and stubborn one? I'm not sure if Raven's naturally 'strong' personality directly means that he will be worse during hormones than a guy who is more naturally sweet. I hope it has nothing to do with it!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Cetan on July 20, 2014, 05:15:07 PM
Benjamin is about 6 months older than Chante. I wont say he has settled down and he can be stubborn especially about going back in his cage. At times I have to put a treat in then go into a room around the corner so he cant see me, then he will go to get his treat because if I am watching he knows I want him to go into his cage. He is too smart for my own good! But he has so much personality and always seems so inquisitive. I had to go out of town for a few days and my bird sitter (who has 14 if her own) was threatening to birdnap him. His cage is right next to my desk and if he is not hanging out on his grapevine wreath hanging above the cage he is on a boing hanging down the side peering at me chattering away if I am not paying attention to him.
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Marisol on August 21, 2014, 02:40:20 PM
Hello!
 Glad I found this site! So much good info. I have a 5 year old male (dna tested Pi) BW that just hit puberty. OH BOY!!! He was even tempered, sweet, ready to be picked up at any time ( by me), lap bird. No problems whatsoever with him. Unfortunately it has been 2 days since I have been able to handled him in any way. While he always came forward to be picked up, played with and put on his tree stand, now all he does is be completely aggressive towards me. Good thing his body language is so clear. DO NOT TOUCH ME LOOK AT ME OR BE NEAR ME..or he WILL lurch forward and attack.
 It has been hard to see him like this, because I can see in his behavior that he is not quite sure what or why is happening. If I walk away he wants to be near me, but if I come close, he cant help himself, he attacks. I have kept him in his cage, for his safety (and MINE). But I go near him and speak softly to him, letting him know it is ok, and give him a foot rub while telling him what a good boy he is. Today he has allowed the foot rub without trying to get my fingers thru the cage, so I know my boy is in there somewhere being held by his own hormones!
 All I can do is love him and be there for him. That is all anyone can do when they are dealing with this. My blue fronted amazon was soooo much easier!. They are worth the time and patience it takes to deal with this behavior. If anyone has any suggestions that might work with my little guy, please please let me know!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on August 21, 2014, 09:30:56 PM
Hi Marisol  :) welcome to another BW owner! I do feel for you. Wow, not until 5? I've heard how commonly these guys get the hormonal behavior really young compared to other birds their size. I don't know when Raven's will hit but you can be sure I'm not looking forward to it! Raven turns 1 next week, and he's always been pretty crotchety lol. I used to have a female BW who passed away about 8 years ago. She was extremely sweet, but I decided I only wanted male birds by the time I got Raven. I never wanted to deal with eggs or reproductive problems. But THIS is the drawback of male birds! :shocking: At least this forum is good for sharing with others who also have Pionus. The forum can be very slow at times, but there are some of us regulars who always show up before long  :)
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Marisol on August 22, 2014, 09:27:52 PM
 Hi Julie, :hello1:
 He did have hormonal behavior by the time he was almost 3. But it wasn't aggressive at all, and all you had to do is walk away or distract him with a treat and all was forgotten! So sad I cant even hold him!. I started giving him the avicalm. Never have used it before, but I think it is taking the edge off. He isnt puffed up as much at the sight of me, so that is something, and he is actually talking again and saying " Taco is a good boy, Hi Taco, luv Taco"..I will be calling the vet next week, just to check and see if there are any natural anything I could use (like chamomile flower) anything! I also stopped giving him any warm foods, just in case that triggers it..hit and miss for awhile, I'm sure. Lets see how it goes!
 I have two other birds, Coco a female Blue Front Amazon and Sam a male Moluccan Cockatoo...I have to say, in my case, girls are easier!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Julie T on August 23, 2014, 12:19:39 AM
Hang in there Marisol... Hopefully the Avicalm will work. Let us know!

I'm scared now for Raven's upcoming hormones!! :shocking: Yes, the girl birds are usually a lot easier! It's good to know that you do get clear body language signs with Pionus when the biting is from hormones. How cute he says Taco is a good boy, hi Taco, luv Taco haha. I think it's so cute when Pionus talk. They usually have adorable voices. My Red Bellied parrot has a deep voice like an old man haha, he IS an old man, but I don't know why his voice is deep!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Marisol on August 27, 2014, 07:17:00 PM
Hello again!
 Wanted to do a small update on Taco. The avicalm is actually working for him.. YAY!. He is letting me pet him, he was on my lap playing, and even let me give him a little head scratch!! Woo.. I still can see he has hormone overload, specially around his cage, but not as aggressive as before.  I have never used avicalm before, since I always feel it is better for nature to run its natural course, but I truly believe he is also very glad things have settled!. Poor thing didn't know if he was coming or going  :icon_mrgreen: . At least, I know better for next time!.
 Good luck to all the others out there!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Dartman on August 27, 2014, 07:47:07 PM
Thanks, have to keep that in mind if Lurch gets way out a hand. Wonder if Petco or any of the regular pet places sell it.
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Marisol on August 27, 2014, 08:00:50 PM
 Hello Dartman,
 I have never seen it at Petco or Petsmart. I purchased mine at the AZ bird rescue. If you don't have an avian store near by, then the best bet would be online.
 As reluctant as I was, I really really rec comended. It just takes the edge enough to let him be more like his normal self. Now, is Lurch is a little head strong, then he be a little head strong with a smile  :icon_mrgreen:
 Hope it works for your little guy!
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: Dartman on August 27, 2014, 08:21:31 PM
Yeah he's pretty headstrong and stubborn at times and gets homicidal if I wear the wrong hat but he's pretty happy and loving most times now. He has had harmonal episodes and gets nippy and the crazed attacks when those evil hats trigger him so figure I can put that in the toolbox if he gets aggressive for a longer time.
We do have a dedicated small bird shop fairly close by and like you said online  :)
Title: Re: Vet says Bronze Winged males are...
Post by: maxsmom on August 28, 2014, 01:37:22 AM
Thanks for feedback on avicalm. I have it but have not used it. Good to know it could help if needed