Pionus Parrot's Forum

Miscellaneous Parrot Topics => Behavior & Training => Topic started by: maxsmom on February 16, 2015, 05:10:15 AM

Title: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 16, 2015, 05:10:15 AM
Hello

Not much activity going on the forum tbese days....too cold to post? :-)

So please post a great story of positive reinforcement training to inspire us all.

Many know Charlie who has been with me for 2 years is a bit stubborn. He doesn't step up and is pretty much hands off.   I still have hopes to get him to step up..... Anyway, he has learned to turnaround for treats like Max. He is not always consistent and gets frustrated. I simply do not give him the treat when he will not turnaround and keep lesson very short. And I try again another day. My goal is more consistent performance....next is basic target training......all leading to eventual step up lessons.   I spent a year to convert him to healthy eating....I smile as he chews kale these days....so I am still hopeful that with enough practice he will decide he can trust enough again

Looking forward to reading your posts
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Julie T on February 16, 2015, 12:21:27 PM
Too cold??!!.... It's too freakin HOT to post LOL  :biglaughing: it's been near 90 lately! Nothing to be jealous of, it's not nice and warm, it's HOT. I'm SWEATING.

You'll get there! You're doing so well with Charlie so far. Diet conversions are tough too, and to stick with it and not give up day after day of food waste. Although it takes time, I think it's still a bit easier to get a bird to trust you, than it is to get a stubborn bird to do something (who does trust).

Raven will 99% of the time ONLY step up for me if I have a treat bribe. I give a single safflower seed. They're tiny, but it's enough. He loves them. I think all parrots do. Sometimes the seed is a dud, but by the time he finds out he's already stepped up haha. Raven does trust me... his problem is that he TESTS me to see what he could get away with not doing. I ALWAYS need to treat bribe him. Sometimes he'll "act" like he's going to take the treat, then will do a quick bite instead with no warning! That is so Un-Pionus-like! Occasionally he will NOT take the treat, and will not do what I ask either, which makes it hard for training. I can tell by his facial expressions and body language, he's just doing it to try me. Or like he's saying "you're not my person, I'm simply not interested in doing anything for you".  I have to call Don over, and then he just melts in his hands!!

As you regulars know, Raven will do ANYTHING for Don, and he doesn't even need a treat! Raven has NEVER bitten him. He could even restrain Raven WITHOUT a towel while I groom him, and he'll still never bite him. Amazing. Don doesn't even need to say "step up" he can just open the cage and go in and grab him and pull him out of the cage with both hands like a chicken and he doesn't mind!! Flips him upside down, smothers him with cuddles with both hands holding him tight (just like a Cockatoo)!!! He's even hormonal right now... I can't even believe it.

Raven is very slowly just starting to accept me a slight bit more. Ever so occasionally, when his bff Griffin is on my arm, THEN he might want to be on my arm too for a few minutes. He also likes to talk to me as I stand near him.

I'm afraid it's no story of inspiration, but as Raven opens up to me, I plan to slowly see if I can get him to do more than just step up without giving me a dirty stare lol.

Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 16, 2015, 03:50:43 PM
Great story of your diligence and positive reinforcement with step up.  I think it is great how much you try with Raven. Maybe your husband should not give ANY treats. If treats only come from you perhaps he will appreciate you more. 

Think about target training him. And yes I am jealous of 90
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Dartman on February 16, 2015, 04:52:45 PM
Trust me the quick bite rather then taking the treat is pretty Pionus like, at least with Lurch as well. He'll decided he doesn't want the treat, or just is tired of it and smack at it or try to bite to make it go away.
He has learned that direct hard biting doesn't always get the result he desired so he's modified his reaction to mostly biting and knocking the treat out of our hands while fluffing and flaring so he's also learned to give clear warnings again.
He has slowly learned that if he stays nice he's allowed to ride around on our shoulders, if he nips he gets shaken off and no more shoulder rides for a while. He always flies to plop on me when I leave but has also learned when I gently drop my shoulder and tell him to go home he is to fly away, then I tell him what a good bird he is. Not sure if he responds to that sorta thing but it keeps things positive and he seems happy to be allowed a bit of time to hang out before I tell him to go home.
He pretty much is free ranging once somebodies home and is allowed to do as he pleases as long as he isn't getting hurt or being nippy so he really has decided he likes to just hang out with me or sister and get treats, scritches, or snooze.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Julie T on February 16, 2015, 06:20:22 PM
Great story of your diligence and positive reinforcement with step up.  I think it is great how much you try with Raven. Maybe your husband should not give ANY treats. If treats only come from you perhaps he will appreciate you more. 

Think about target training him. And yes I am jealous of 90

Thanks so much maxsmom  :) I love my Raven. More than he loves me lol. He's so funny and cute and entertaining. What helps is that I try to focus on those positives instead of on the things that disappoint me about him :)

Actually Don really doesn't give Raven treats all that often. So I am the primary person who gives treats. I should try targeting.. I'm curious how a super stubborn bird will respond to it! I'll have to try then get back to you.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Julie T on February 16, 2015, 08:34:38 PM
Trust me the quick bite rather then taking the treat is pretty Pionus like, at least with Lurch as well. He'll decided he doesn't want the treat, or just is tired of it and smack at it or try to bite to make it go away.

Oh so it IS Pionus-like!! I see... Yeah, Raven has been a cranky one ever since I first met him at 4 1/2 months old! I try to make him see that biting is not effective with me, but it doesn't deter him lol. So far they have been bite and release type of bites at least... Poicephalus on the other hand are vicious when they bite, and hang on til you're pretty good and bloody!
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Dartman on February 16, 2015, 09:51:42 PM
The vet that saw Nerd a few times showed us a scar on her hand by the fat on the back of the area below the thumb. It was not horrible but noticeable once she pointed it out and she said it was the worst bite she ever got and it was a Pionus, maxi I think, that did it when she was a student vet.
That was after Nerd got upset the first time they met and tried to bite her, he was very scared and she was trying to get him out of his cage as we didn't have a carrier yet. I got her outa the way and he nailed me good too and she said you shouldn't let him bite you... :shocking: I said he's my bird and he can bite me but I don't want to let him bite you...then she showed us the scar after he was dealt with and settled down. They can also hang on like pit bulls and chew, trust me, I've been on the receiving end a few times, but yes most times it will be a pinch and release type thing, they reserve the grinding and chewing for those times when they are truly afraid and trying to defend themselves. :taz:
Nerd pretty much never did the bite the food I don't want thing, he just would ignore it or refuse to take it so it is also a individual thing as well.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: momazon on February 17, 2015, 12:06:31 AM
Oh, yes, I agree, pi bites can be bad, and they do vary.  Luckily, Dobby does not bite and hang on, but we did rehome one bird that did that, and my ear has some interesting scar tissue because of her.  Poicephalus bites are different, maybe because they are little and sharp like daggers.

As far as the best training move we made, it was when he was a baby, and we used to get at different ends of the house with his handfeeding formula, and took turns calling him and giving a little formula.  This has been a lifesaver a couple of times when he got out.  Once was when we were moving two summers ago. I was unspeakably stressed and walked outside with him on my shoulder, one for the books, I know, but I did just that.  He flew to the rooftop and began strutting, and I got a spoon and some oatmeal and began calling, "Dobby Dobby, let's eat".  After what seemed like forever, he flew down to eat and seemed okay with the oatmeal instead of formula. The other time he got loose, the same thing happened, and I had to climb up on the garage in my robe, much to the amusement of our former neighbors.  We don't talk about that one.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Julie T on February 17, 2015, 01:43:56 AM
Wow Terry, the vet said the worst bite was a Pionus! Good that they don't typically and often do the hanging on and grinding thing! Poi's do it pretty normally, and although their body is 1/2 size of Pionus, my Red Bellied's beak is 3/4 the size of Raven's. The males especially are extremely hard biters. Robin once took a good chunk out of my finger. They said I couldn't get stitches cause there was a piece missing!  :shocking:
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 17, 2015, 04:12:34 AM
Momazon- Your recall technique is terrific. All of us should practice this. Glad it got Dobby back. Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 17, 2015, 04:39:49 AM
Terry - Would you like to share any techniques in positive reinforcement training?
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 17, 2015, 04:49:05 AM
Great story of your diligence and positive reinforcement with step up.  I think it is great how much you try with Raven. Maybe your husband should not give ANY treats. If treats only come from you perhaps he will appreciate you more. 

Think about target training him. And yes I am jealous of 90



Actually Don really doesn't give Raven treats all that often. So I am the primary person who gives treats. I should try targeting.. I'm curious how a super stubborn bird will respond to it! I'll have to try then get back to you.
I will get back to you as well. Charlie is super stubborn and prone to looking at me like I am crazy then barking at me to ask me to go away (Apparently he used to live with a dog and saw how effective barking was). But I am going to try target training....I believe patience will be needed
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Julie T on February 17, 2015, 12:18:47 PM
Okay maxsmom, you and I will have each other for encouragement!  :) Lets do it!

It helps to know that Raven is not the only one who gives "those looks". If I try to step him up without a safflower seed, he'll give me a dirty look, then look down at my finger, then back up at my face LOL as if to tell me I must be joking or something! As frustrating as it is, it's hilarious too!
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Dartman on February 17, 2015, 06:01:42 PM
Terry - Would you like to share any techniques in positive reinforcement training?
As in you have ideas for me, or any things I might have come up with? Please type quietly as he just hopped onto my left knee to preen and hang out :shades:
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 17, 2015, 08:18:45 PM
Terry - check out the clicker training and target training sites I posted. Posting about how bad pionus bites are on a positive reinforcement thread may not be consistent with the topic of the thread. Yes pionus parrots bite as do all parrots; however I was trying to have a positive thread about how to change behaviour. Biting can change with positive reinforcement.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Dartman on February 17, 2015, 10:10:50 PM
I see what you mean, OK, well let's see, we're slowly working on the going to bed at night. I have found that if I sit down in front of his cage he'll  forget to defend his house and then get interested in what I'm up to and usually decide to jump on my knee and hang out, take a treat, and get scratches, then I might be able to get him to go in, no battle, and he ends up happy no matter how it works out and gets some daddy time.
Lately he puts himself in when he's ready and we tell him what a good boy he is when we close his door at night, and if he's receptive give him a scratch through the bars or a treat.
He's a stubborn boy but he loves us in his own way and we love him back no matter what.
I'll have to check your links, I can already say come on to him and he'll fly right to me, but of course its something he wants to do anyways.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: momazon on February 18, 2015, 01:00:11 PM
Momazon- Your recall technique is terrific. All of us should practice this. Glad it got Dobby back. Thanks for sharing

Haha, you are very kind. Our training is mainly to tolerate vet exams and coax them off rooftops!
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 18, 2015, 07:38:28 PM
Ahhhh,  but that is way ahead of me! Vet visits are tough!
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: momazon on February 19, 2015, 12:48:11 PM
The magic words here are, "Flippy birdy gets cheese, wingy birdy gets cheese, feet feet bird gets cheese".  I say each one and flip, give cheese, stretch wings, give cheese, and play with feet and give cheese.  Really, my so-called training is a pitiful cave in to cheese gluttony! In the beginning I gave the reward every time, then began just saying flip, stretch, and feet feet, and gave cheese less frequently. Oh, and "bitey birds" get NO CHEESE! The amount is about the size of half a raisin, since it adds up and pudgy birds will just add to my problems.  :partytime2:

They do nothing else on command and never stay on their perches, and when outside spend all day tormenting the neighbors if I am busy.   >:D

I really admire people here, Terry for having the patience to teach his babies to trust, and others who do all those fancy moves like The Wave, Turnaround, and all else you see on the internet. My main technique is to shower them and keep them happy if I am able!    :EmoticonCatchHen:
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Fuzzy on February 20, 2015, 10:18:52 PM
Go Charlie and Maxsmom!  :banana:

I also use positive reinforcement training with my birds. 

Kobe goes into his travel cage for a piece of almond.  He'll step up to get a ride to see what's out of the window or to come and watch TV with me.  He also finds laughter reinforcing - he'll play harder if I laugh with him.  Any attention is reinforcing for him - I'll reinforce his talking by answering him.

Ollie came to me "cage bound" and terrified of everything.  It's been a long haul with him.  At the beginning me walking away was reinforcing to him, so I included it in his training.  I would give him a palm nut (the only thing he would take from me) and immediately walk away - progress was slow but still progress.  4+ years later, Ollie targets, he'll step up on a hand held perch, he'll turn around, he'll hold his feet still so I can cut his nails, he'll go into his travel cage.  Ollie's reinforcers are usually pieces of cashew, sometimes a palm nut or a head skritch.  I worked for months if not over a year on desensitizing him to head skritching and now he can't get enough of them.  Right now I am teaching him the most difficult thing of all... to step up on my hand.

I've only had time to teach Chico to target - it's a little difficult with him as he can't see very well.  I tap the chopstick on his cage bars and he follows the sound.  He used to chase me when I cleaned out his cage, but I am reinforcing sitting with relaxed body language with head scritches and singing.  I couldn't touch him at first with all the lunging, but slowly desensitized him to the head skritching.  It turns out he loves being skritched so I can now use it as a reinforcer. 

Bobbie will target for goji berries.  She'll turn around.  She'll go back into her cage.  She'll step up on my arm - the reinforcer is head skritching, or running up my arm to park herself into my neck.

I'm betting we all use positive reinforcement to get more of the behaviours we want to see.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 21, 2015, 06:06:27 AM
Fuzzy

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this very inspiring post. I have so far to go with both of my boys, but especially with Charlie. Charlie has had me for 2 years and I am hopeful that the upcoming years will bring more positive change.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Inspiring
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 21, 2015, 06:54:24 PM
Fuzzy

I would like to ask advice. I trained Charlie to not scream by giving him a treat for saying words....great he doesn't scream but he solicits treats a lot by speaking. I know he should not trigger a treat but it was all I could do after 4 months of almost constant screaming. He has just learned to turnaround for a treat after watching Max do this. He used to allow scritching but stopped a year ago. Should I try target training next? I really want him to step up but I know I have yo work my way to that. I know he is trainable and I have to move slowly toward goals. I appreciate advice in setting goals and next steps
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Fuzzy on February 21, 2015, 09:58:07 PM
Thank you Maxsmom!  I've really enjoyed reading what you and everybirdie else have been training using positive reinforcement.  It sounds like you are already doing so great with Charlie!  Getting treats for talking is wonderful - fabulous training there!  :cheerleader:  And you were clever to use Max as a model to teach Charlie turn around.

What you could try is not to give Charlie a treat every time he talks.  A continuous schedule of reinforcement (reinforcing every instance of the desired behaviour) is a must for teaching a new behaviour.  What you can do now since the behaviour is strong, is try gradually changing to an intermittent schedule of reinforcement.  Maybe work to reinforce his talking every second, then every third time, but all the time being aware of the effect it is having on him - we don't want him to become frustrated and start screaming again.   

If you still want to work with a continuous schedule of reinforcement, you could try mixing the reinforcers up.  Maybe a piece of cashew one time, a piece of almond or whatever the next, a present of a foot toy, or a verbal interaction etc.  Notice what is reinforcing to Charlie and pick out maybe three different reinforcers.  (If something is reinforcing the behaviour will continue or increase.)  It is exciting as he never knows what he's going to get next, just like a box of chocolates!  :icon_mrgreen: This will also keep a behaviour strong as he's hoping for his very favourite treat perhaps next time.  There is certainly nothing wrong with keeping to a continuous schedule of reinforcement even if it is the same treat each time. 

An intermittent schedule of reinforcement can make the desired behaviour even stronger.  Imagine someone trying to ignore an unwanted behaviour, like screaming, then fed up rushes over to the cage and shouts and waves her hands about.  If the bird finds that kind of attention reinforcing then next time he'll try even harder, longer and louder to get his mom to rush over to him.  This is why unwanted behaviours are so hard to get rid of... they are usually on a lean schedule of reinforcement.  So the intermittent schedule is definitely something to think about and introduce gradually.

Target training is usually one of the easiest behaviours to start with.  Usually a bird is curious enough to bite the end of a chopstick or some other stick when presented to him.  If the bird is frightened of it, it is easy to first desensitize him to its presence and then shape the behaviour using teeny tiny steps. 

Stepping up is actually one of the most difficult behaviours to teach.  If you start with an easier behaviour like target training you can practice getting your timing really spot on and he gets to have fun working with you.  It's is so cool to see the penny finally drop - "oh all I have to do is touch the end of that stick and a treat appears?"  When starting out target training keep the chopstick absolutely still.  Later try holding it still a few inches away so he has to take a step towards it.  Then hold it further away but again still.  Much later when the behaviour is fluent you can start moving it so that he follows.  If you start moving it too soon then the bird can give up as the target is always out of his reach which = no treat.  :(

I went to one of Barbara Heidenreich's workshops a few months ago.  There were two Greys who were totally uninterested in food.  Barbara worked with some of the other birds but all the time noticing what one of the Greys was doing.  He had flown over to a group of people behind me and was having a wonderful time chewing the top of a plastic coke bottle.  So Barbara came over and in a few minutes taught him to target.  The reinforcer was that he got to have a quick chew of the coke bottle for each successful approximation towards touching the target.  I was close enough to be able to experience his ah ha moment - "all I have to do is touch that thing and I get to have a chew of the coke bottle."  It was awesome!



Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 22, 2015, 03:49:39 AM
Fuzzy

I am very appreciative of the advice. Targeting was easy with Max and previously Charlie was not interested. I will try again now that quite a bit of time has passed.  Teaching step up is daunting with him. Targeting is a good next step to build our bond.

Barbara's class sounds.like it was an amazing experience.

Your birds are lucky to have you.

My eyes are so open to the changes in life. If one day my two boys ever had to adjust to a new home I want them as well adjusted as possible.  I can see Charlie was very comfortable with someone at some point but all of the change he experienced 2 years ago before he got to me and including coming to me was a lot for him. I hope my boys will be with me for the rest of their lives but one never knows what can happen ...death, illness, etc....one never thinks it can happen to them. Plus it would just be plain wonderful for easier vet visits or just getting him to his cage in my home.

Again thank you
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Fuzzy on February 22, 2015, 09:38:58 PM
LOL - I know what you mean - I have avoided teaching Ollie to step up on my hand as it's a big thing for him (he doesn't like hands).  And yep, targeting would be an excellent way to build your bond.

You are such a great bird mom to be worrying about their life with or without you.  Does Charlie play with you?  Would he come to mouth a foot toy if you held it near him?  That would be another way to form a bond... just have fun with him.  With Ollie that's how I got to eventually skritch him.  I started by slowly building up to skritching him with a toy whilst we played.  Then one day he put his head down when I had no toy in my hand.  It was the most amazing moment as I never thought I would be able to touch him.  Now he can't get enough skritches.

To teach the step up, one way is to use shaping by working towards the goal behaviour in tiny steps.  You might start from something as simple as reinforcing his looking at your hand (Charlie has to look at your hand first before he thinks of traveling towards it), then maybe reinforcing stretching his head a little towards your hand, then reinforcing his leaning his body toward your hand, then reinforcing taking one step toward your hand, then two steps, then lifting one foot toward your hand, then resting that foot on your hand, then putting his weight on that foot, then bringing up the second foot so that he is eventually standing on your hand.

Another way is to pair something good with your hand eg. by having him eat his favourite treats out of one hand which is placed over the top of your other hand.  Gradually bring your treat hand further up your arm and the theory is that he will follow until he puts one foot on your hand to reach the treats... then two feet.

I taught Ollie to step up on a hand held perch using the first method.  I am trying a mixture of things to get him to step up on my hand including the second method and also having him target over my hand, but sometimes asking him to really stretch to touch it.  He will sometimes put a foot on my hand by accident which is great.  It's just going to take a long time with him and that's fine.

Training needn't take much time.  I ask for a few seconds here or a few seconds there.  I'm passing your cage to collect your water bowl - hey wanna target this?

If you can see Barbara work, she is amazing.  She now does webinars online which you can book through her website.  The next one coming up is "Creating Motivation and Identifying Reinforcers in Animal Training."  Here's a link to her calendar:

http://www.goodbirdinc.com/calendar.html


Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 23, 2015, 04:17:27 AM
I had 2 cockatiels for 17 years and 10 years respectively. As much as I doted on them and cared for them and as much as my vet's office praised my diligence, I learned as I got my pionus how much I didn't know. It is embarrassing how much I didn't know.  Their cages were too small, they should have had more veggies, etc.

So I believe as a keeper of animals that do not always find new homes easily and that are much misunderstood, I owe it to my birds to ensure their well being for now and beyond. I will do all I can to continue their stability. I luckily can provide a lot for them in resources and care but seeing how maladjusted Charlie was at losing his home shows me the work I owe him. I am sure someone who loved him for 8 years never contemplated how maladjusted he could end up. He eats organic kale, chard and squash, he chews lots of toys, he sees the vet for an annual visit with full tests plus for grooming quarterly, he has a large cage, he has ladders to help him get to each play station, he can chose which window from which to watch outside,  he has run of my home and a buddy in Max, but he needs more training. I say this not to show off how I spoil him but to say despite that I know I can do so much better by him.

I took classes with Phoenix Landing and bird behavior coaches a bit 2 years ago. I am not the best trainer nor am I consistent. However I will continue to work at training. I can improve.

Charlie is extremely independent and doesn't want much one on one interaction. Occasionally he seeks it out. I need to grow that. Steps are small. Very small. But he has progressed since day one 27 months ago.

Anyway your posts are huge reminders of lessons I have not applied or are new lessons for me. So I thank you. One day Charlie will thank you too. I know he has so much capacity for more.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Fuzzy on February 23, 2015, 09:36:06 AM
Charlie and Max are very lucky birds! 

I love the fact that you embrace learning.  The challenge of rehomes and the progress you can help them make is somehow ultra special.   :icon_mrgreen: 

Absolutely - keep comparing where Charlie is now compared to Day 1.  Isn't it wonderful that each bird is so individual?  It's keeps you thinking outside the box.  I am jealous of you taking classes with Phoenix Landing.  A friend of mine goes to their seminars as often as she can.  I wish we had more such classes in the UK but I go see Barbara H whenever she comes over.  I was lucky enough to attend a 2 day seminar by Dr Susan Friedman about 3 years ago - it was so good to meet her in person.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 23, 2015, 10:29:05 AM
Wow, you are lucky to go to Susan Freidman's class!  I have been meaning to go to one of Barbara's classes or take advantage of her conference calls. PL is great.....very instructive and affordable.  They are serious about creating better parrot owners.  They are part of reason I feel such a responsibility to my birds to improve as their owner.
Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: Fuzzy on February 23, 2015, 08:26:26 PM
Phoenix Landing sounds great! :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

Title: Re: Positive Reinforcement Training
Post by: maxsmom on February 24, 2015, 12:02:56 AM
Yes, I feel this is a superb resource. They truly are dedicated to helping birds adjust to having more than one home and helping people know what they are getting into and preparing them to be better owners. Lots of content. I highly recommend to those in Maryland, Virginia, DC, North Carolina. 3 day class on positive reinforcement and training in NC is very much less expensive than other organizations who offer training techniques. Worth travel.